EVA: (00:04)
Hey there, you’re listening to the My Sleeping Baby podcast, which is all about baby and child sleep. I’m so excited to teach you how you can get your little ones sleeping so that you can sleep too and enjoy parenthood to its fullest. I’m Eva Klein, your resident’s sleep expert, mom of three, founder of the Sleep Bible online coaching program, and lover of all things sleep and motherhood. If you’re looking for tangible solutions for your little one sleep woes or you simply want to learn more, this podcast is for you. For more information, check out mysleepingbaby.com and you can follow me on Instagram and Facebook @mysleepingbaby.

EVA: (00:44)
All right, Monica. Thanks so much for being here today on the, my sleeping baby podcast.

MONICA: (00:49)
Yeah, I’m so happy to be here.

EVA: (00:51)
Amazing. All right. Well, tell everyone a little bit about yourself and, uh, how you ended up in the sleep Bible program.

MONICA: (00:59)
So you remember how, how I contacted you. And my son was four months old. Yeah. And, uh, how much I was struggling with him. Um, and when I reached out to you, you were like a huge help, um, because you actually like were able to solve all of the issues, um, that I explained to you.  I really needed help sleep training my baby and had no idea what to do.

EVA: (01:18)
Yeah.

MONICA: (01:18)
And, um, I was so happy. My husband was so happy, um, that you were able to cover everything and literally everything got solved and like, I don’t have any issues with my son sleeping now, which is, I mean, he’s almost two years old and I remember, I, I contact you when he was four months old. Mm-hmm

EVA: (01:36)
so, so let’s, let’s go back to that. So tell me about what was his sleep like in those first few months of life, when he was a newborn, what did that all look like for you?

MONICA: (01:47)
Oh my gosh. It was,

EVA: (01:48)
If you can remember

MONICA: (01:50)
Oh, oh, I can remember. This was way before I was sleep training my baby.  I can remember because he was really like, like I had to be with him pretty much all the time in order for him to fall asleep. Um, he didn’t want to go to sleep by himself. He wanted that comfort. He wanted that touch and, and I just didn’t know, like, how can he go to sleep by himself? Like, why is, does it, why doesn’t he wanna fall asleep? And so, um, yeah, I, I don’t even know where to go from there. It

EVA: (02:20)
Just, right. Yeah. Right, right, right. And so I guess, you know, like so many moms, those first few months are just you’re in survival mode,

MONICA: (02:28)
Right? Yeah.

EVA: (02:29)
And you sort of, we sort of miraculously find this, you know, like inhumane amount of strength and energy to just get through that stage alive. Yeah. Except that what’s really important to emphasize is that that inhumane amount of energy doesn’t last forever, you know, mm-hmm, eventually it runs out. And so, yeah, I remember we connected, um, when he was four months. And so, you know, why don’t you remind me again, what was, what was happening around that four month mark with Alex?

MONICA: (03:02)
Um, so I remember he was still, well, obviously he was feeding at nighttime. So the biggest challenge for me was to have to attend him every second that he would wake up and start crying. And I thought, okay, well he’s hungry. And so I would go to him, I would feed him, put him back down after a few hours, he was up awake again, crying. And I’m like, okay, well, I guess I have to go feed him. He’s hungry again. And I, I totally understand, like newborns have to eat. And yeah, it’s a normal thing. But as he started getting older, like four months, five months, like I knew like, okay, like he can’t just be hungry all the time. Mm-hmm . So, um, I reached out to you and, um, you know, you were able to, to kind of guide me, like, what can I do?

MONICA: (03:42)
What kind of method can I use for him? Something that I felt comfortable with. Right. And, um, I, I can’t exactly REM I remember there were a lot of methods that we tried out and, uh, one of them was the, um, it was, I forget the name of it. Uh, like you walk in and then you kind of comfort them for five minutes and then you walk back out and mm-hmm, like, you wait another 10 minutes. So we tried a lot of things. And, uh, finally we got to a method that worked for us. Mm-hmm and, um, yeah, we just went from there and it was going very well. So no issues. Amazing.

EVA: (04:13)
Yeah. No, and I’m really glad that you brought that up because I think that a lot of moms think that when it comes to sleep training your baby, sleep, coaching, teaching a baby to self sooth, fall asleep by themselves, they think that there’s just one option. Right. And that no, and that option is just cry it out. You know, you no,

MONICA: (04:30)
No,

EVA: (04:30)
But the baby in the crib and you leave and yes, that is one option, but there are many others that can still get you from point a to point B. Right.

MONICA: (04:40)
When you still are able to have that attachment with your baby and you don’t have to feel guilty that you left them and they’re there crying. So no, no, I wouldn’t think about it like that.

EVA: (04:49)
Right, right. No, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. Yeah. And then it was shortly after that you joined the sleep Bible yeah. To get that follow up support. So, um, so tell me, like what, what, you know, made you initially, you know, join the program and then what made you stick around ?

MONICA: (05:08)
So, um, I stuck around because I knew how much my baby’s sleep was gonna change as he gets older. Mm-hmm . And I knew that if I joined the sleep Bible, I’m gonna have that guidance, that kind of, those, uh, little, uh, videos I can watch with, uh, you know, you explaining how to do what step by step. And mm-hmm I knew that you’re not always gonna be there 24 7, which like, you know, is understandable. Yeah. And I say, Bible, just like, you know, any kind of issues that I had with, um, time changes or feeding or, um, like just anything it’s there, it’s all there. So that really, really helped me out a lot.

EVA: (05:49)
Amazing. Yeah. So do you recall, you know, when he was five, six months and you were, you know, in the program and, you know, your goal at that point was to keep him sleeping like a champ. I mean, what, what did a typical day of yours look like? You know, what did bedtime look like versus beforehand, you know, before you got all that help?

MONICA: (06:11)
So it was definitely like a transition, but it was like, for me personally, it was very quick, um, because my son kind of caught onto it and he knew like what was going on. And he was like, okay, like, I need to learn how to sleep by myself. For, for me, it happened pretty quickly. Like I have to say his sleep got better in about three days.

EVA: (06:30)
Isn’t that amazing.

MONICA: (06:31)
Amazing. Yeah. It’s fantastic.

EVA: (06:34)
And that happened some. Yeah. And that happens sometimes. And I find that a lot of parents, they think that, um, that this is the type of process that can take, you know, weeks and months on end before we see improvements. When the reality is that a lot of the time, these changes are precisely what the baby is craving. And so, yeah,

MONICA: (06:54)
I think, yeah, for sure. I think as long as you stay consistent with it and like, um, you’re not kind of like all over the place and, and distracted, I, I think, uh, it really, really pays off. I mean, I totally understand, there are kids who may take a little bit more time to of course, F onto the concept and that’s totally understandable. Um, but every baby’s different. Right. So I wouldn’t let that discourage anybody. Um, I would just keep going and, you know, don’t give up, it’s gonna happen. Like it’s gonna work. Right.

EVA: (07:22)
Yeah, absolutely. So what does your bedtime routine look like now?

MONICA: (07:26)
So now, like bedtime is pretty flexible. Like there’s not like no consistent, like time. I’m not worried. Okay. He is gonna go to bed at seven 30 or eight o’clock, it’s kind of like, not all over the place, but it works because I’m not on like a rigid schedule with him, but I know what kind of wake window he needs for his age, which is what’s appropriate. Um, so his bedtime, he usually goes to bed around eight 30 and he, you know, takes him about like 15 minutes on average to fall asleep sometimes a little bit longer, depending, you know, if he’s more excited or whatever, he sleeps about 10 to 10 and a half hours at night. And he doesn’t usually wake up at night ever. Um, he’ll, he’ll cry maybe from a bad dream or like if he lost his like little blanket, but other than that, he puts himself back to sleep cuz he knows mom and dad are gonna be there in the morning. And mm-hmm, , he’s, he’s very happy. He loves his crib. He loves clip. He has a very good, um, yeah. Uh, attachment to it. So

EVA: (08:25)
Amazing. And I’m, and I’m really glad that you brought up what a typical night of his looks like, because yeah. You know, we usually talk about getting a baby to sleep, you know, 11, 11 and a half hours, you know, at night. Um, Alex was never that baby right.

MONICA: (08:41)
No, he wasn’t

EVA: (08:41)
Ever, ever, ever, um, he needs, he always has needed less sleep than average. Yeah. Um, and there are those, listen, when we talk about averages, it means that you have some that need more and some that need less. Yeah. And he’s always needed less and that’s just, you know, how he is. Um, but why don’t you tell us about some of the, some of the challenges that you’ve had as a result of him needing less sleep that, you know, we’ve, we’ve navigated in the sleep Bible.

MONICA: (09:11)
Yeah. So, um, because he always needed less sleep. I, I ne like maybe in the beginning I would try to like force it on him, like, okay. Like why isn’t he sleeping 12 hours? Like, come on. Mm-hmm um, you know, I didn’t really have any challenges aside from the fact, like whenever I would, you know, reach out to you, I would say, you know, Alex only wants to sleep two hours or he only wants to sleep like an hour and 15 minutes or whatever. And you know, your response always was well, is he happy? Is he well rested? And mm-hmm and that was always what I looked at. Yeah. I didn’t really look at anything else because I knew like for me, if I wake up happy and well rested, I, I know that I needed only six hours or I needed eight hours to sleep that night. Mm-hmm so everyone’s different. I, I think the most important thing you wanna look at is how is he acting? Like, is he happy? Is he crying? Is he miserable? So

EVA: (10:02)
Yeah, a hundred percent. And you know, some people might be hearing that he goes to bed at eight 30 every night and be going, oh my God, that is so late. You know, my kid would be like exhausted at eight 30. Yeah. But you know, what we have to remember is that every kid is a little bit different. And when you have a two year old who needs less sleep than average, if he’s only sleeping 10 hours at night, then a seven 30 bedtime is gonna mathematically get you a five 30 wake up and a well rested kiddo, like who wants that? Right. Yeah, exactly. It is a matter of, of taking his unique needs into account and figuring out a schedule so that this way he can sleep eight 30 until six 30, the next morning, if we know he’s maxing out at 10 to 10 and a half hours of sleep, then we need to be adjusting his schedule based on that. So that you’re not getting a 5:00 AM wake up.

MONICA: (10:56)
Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

EVA: (10:58)
So I’m really, really glad that you mentioned that. So in terms of, you know, how he goes to sleep, so like what does that whole process look like? So after he’s had dinner, what is that? What did it used to look like? Like before you went through the sleep training with your baby and what does it look like now?

MONICA: (11:15)
Um, so before I was sleep training my baby, we, uh, like our, um, getting ready before bed routine was a much shorter. Um, so it was kind of like, okay, like we have dinner, we gonna relax a bit, but it was, it was mainly like, okay, 20 minutes before bed, maybe even half an hour, we would kind of turn off the lights. He would have like a breastfeed. Um, and then we would kind of just read him a book and then off to bed. Mm-hmm uh, now that my son is a little bit older, um, it’s a little bit more fun.

EVA: (11:46)
Yeah.

MONICA: (11:46)
Uh, and because we start about an hour before he goes to bed and we turn off the lights, we listen to some relaxing music, we kind of like cuddle up together. We, we just kind of go over what we did in the day. Um, and you know, lights are dim. Everything’s just kind of relaxed before an hour before bed. And we go up, he actually turns off, turns his lamp on by himself. And then we read a book and then he turns it off by himself and he, he go and he points that like he wants to go to bed.  Before I was sleep training my baby, I never thought that was possible.

EVA: (12:16)
Yeah.

MONICA: (12:17)
He let’s it. And that’s it. And he’s out. And you know, he’s up at 6 45, 7 o’clock in the morning usually. And he’s happy.

EVA: (12:26)
Amazing. And then before you were sleep training your baby, like when he was going through, you know, his four month regression. Yeah. Do you remember what bedtime looked like then?

MONICA: (12:36)
Oh my God. Before I was sleep training my baby, it was, I still remember it was a disaster. I remember like arguing if my husband constantly, like, we were just so sleep deprived, like it wasn’t, there was no routine, there was nothing, it was just like a blob of, of emotions and crying. And it was really difficult for us. Um, so that’s like, when we knew, like we can’t go like this any further, like we can find a healthy way of, of, you know, trying to get him to sleep. Mm-hmm , uh, without, uh, you know, feeling guilty that you know about anything.

EVA: (13:12)
Right. What was his sleep crutch of choice then? Was it the nursing?

MONICA: (13:17)
Uh, I, yeah, yeah. It was the nursing and the kind of, he wanted the cuddles in the middle of the night and he wanted to keep bounced. Uh, yeah, right. Yeah. Those two things. Mm-hmm

EVA: (13:28)
. Yeah. And it sounds like your struggles as he was going through that regression, it sounds very human because that’s how humans, humans are not meant to be able to function, let alone thrive on broken, horrible sleep. Um, if that was the case, then we wouldn’t use sleep deprivation. Wouldn’t be used as a form of torture if it, exactly, but it’s very effective and that’s why, and that’s why it’s, uh, it’s used. And so I think that a lot of people can probably really relate to those struggles that, you know, you and your husband had, but then of course, you know, there’s this guilt that a lot of people feel like I should be so happy. I should be so grateful that I have this like, you know, amazing miraculous baby. Um, I shouldn’t be, you know, exhausted and, and angry and, and fussy and cranky all the time. But yet that is a very normal human way to feel when you’re deprived of something. So basic, like sweet. Right.

MONICA: (14:30)
And it’s not, and it’s not okay. It’s, it’s really not okay. Because it really does affect all aspects of your life. Mm-hmm if you’re sleep deprived, like I know it does for me.

EVA: (14:41)
Yes. So, yeah, yeah, no, a hundred percent. You’re, that’s that’s, as I said, it’s, it’s very, very human. So do you re so do you recall, you know, throughout your year in the sleep Bible, do you recall, you know, some specific milestones or, you know, changes to his sleep that you really needed, you know, guidance and support on, and, you know, we were able to navigate that so seamlessly. Is there anything that comes to mind?

MONICA: (15:11)
Um, I would have to say the time change. Yeah. That really, really helped a lot. Um, because that was also pretty brutal. Mm-hmm I don’t think, uh, I don’t think we, like, we need to deal with these time changes anymore, but unfortunately we do. And, uh, that really helped a lot. Um, also when he started to stand in his crib, that was a big one as well. Um, yeah, I didn’t, I didn’t know how to deal with that or the rolling over the rolling over was a big one, cuz that one lasted for like a good two months, I would say

EVA: (15:43)
Before he learned how to flip the, the other way.

MONICA: (15:46)
Yeah, exactly. So I had to go to his room and flip him every time so that he can fall back asleep. Mm-hmm and then a couple minutes later he flipped back again. So, um, I remember, um, one of the, one of the topics that you covered in the sleep Bible was, was that one too. How to do sleep training for your baby when he’s rolling.  And life changer. Yeah.

EVA: (16:05)
Stopped flipping him every single time.

MONICA: (16:07)
Yeah, exactly. It was up every like hour or two flipping him. I didn’t sleep. And then I remember you suggested one flip done and he’ll learn on his own how to

EVA: (16:15)
Flip. Yeah, no, we listen it’s it is, it’s one of those things and it didn’t take him very long,

MONICA: (16:21)
No. To learn. Right.

EVA: (16:22)
He figured out

MONICA: (16:23)
What a day to

EVA: (16:24)
That sleeping on his sleeping on the other side was not so terrible after all it might even be more comfortable.

MONICA: (16:32)
Yes. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

EVA: (16:34)
Amazing, amazing. Very helpful.

MONICA: (16:36)
Mm-hmm

EVA: (16:36)
fantastic. And then yes. And then I remember when he was learning how to stand and was he did, he went through that stage where he was standing, but he would pull himself up to standing, but then couldn’t sit back down.

MONICA: (16:48)
He wouldn’t sit back down. Yeah,

EVA: (16:49)
Yeah, yeah. And got stuck. And I know, and then that’s when so many moms are thinking to themselves, oh my God, what the hell do I do? Because I want him to, I don’t want him to get overtired, but at the end of the day, he’s also not lying down. And then that’s when a lot of people resort to, you know, temporarily rocking or feeding to get them to sleep. And then that creates, you know, other like bigger problem in the grand scheme of things. And that’s, that’s not what we did with Alex.

MONICA: (17:20)
No. Yeah. That’s not what happened. I, I remember. Yeah. Also it was a very quick, quick transition and you know, I didn’t feel guilty about it. I was still there for him. You know, I came to him that one time in the night and I said, listen, you know, mommy needs to sleep and daddy needs to sleep and you’re gonna have to like sit down on your bum or stay like that. And you explain it to him and you have to go back to sleep. Yes. One time, you know, and it’s, it’s important to kind of like emotionally be calm. Yeah. Uh, because that really helps, uh, because they feel, you, you know, they really totally, they really feel you. So I just try to stay calm and that’s it. Yeah.

EVA: (17:57)
Right, right. And then that was it. You know, the, the novelty about the standing off standing up, you know, wore off probably a lot more quickly than you would imagine. You know, there is this misconception out there that, you know, when a baby is going through a gross motor milestone, that it has to mean that, you know, sleep just goes completely out the window and don’t get me wrong. We know for a fact that learning how to roll, how to crawl, how to set up, how to stand up, you know, how to walk, talk. These are all things, you know, your little one’s brain is, um, processing going through a lot of development mastering this new skill, but it, and while it can absolutely cause blips in the sleep department, what we can do is like nip that blip in the bud as quickly as possible so that it doesn’t turn into a bigger problem.

MONICA: (18:49)
Yep. Exactly

EVA: (18:50)
Amazing. So right now you have a two year old who goes to sleep by himself, you know, sleeps his 10 to 10 and a half hours at night, you know, what does that mean? What does this all mean for you? Like as a person, you know, what does that mean in terms of your quality of life? Like what are you now able to do with all this consistent sleep?

MONICA: (19:15)
Well, I’m able to have a consistent schedule. Like I don’t have to kind of scramble my thoughts and be like, well, what am I gonna do if he doesn’t sleep? Or like, with that time that I have now that I know that he’s consistently sleeping, I’m able to focus on things that I need to do for myself.

EVA: (19:32)
Yeah.

MONICA: (19:32)
Whether that’s exercising or whether that’s having a proper meal or whatever, just focus on things that I wanna do for myself. Because I decided to do sleep training for my baby, I’m able to do that now without, you know, having to worry that, oh, well, Alex, I may wake up in like the next 30 minutes or so, like, I, I really don’t need to worry about that because I know, I know that he knows how to sleep and he has that skill for life now. Yeah. Um, and, and that’s the thing, like you’re really setting them up for life. Mm-hmm with sleep for them and for

EVA: (20:07)
Yourself. Yes. Yes. And, and we know that a well rested parent can, there can be a great parent, cause it means that, you know, you’re parenting with a full tank of gas.

MONICA: (20:18)
Oh, for sure. For sure. And, and you know, why you can deal with those tantrums better because you know, whatever comes your way, you know, that you have a good sleep and you can just, you can tackle on the day better.

EVA: (20:30)
Yeah. Yeah, totally. So what would you tell someone who is thinking about joining the sleep Bible, but is on the fence and isn’t so sure.

MONICA: (20:40)
Well, I would say honestly, don’t think about it. Just do it. I don’t think about it honestly. Yeah. Like I don’t even know what else to say. I, I know that it saved me and how helpful, like you, you really like saved us and I couldn’t think of anybody to do it better, all the help you gave when I was sleep training my baby is invaluable. Cuz you were always there. You always responded. You, you know, you really, you, you really care about the work that you do. So I, I really, really do appreciate all of the help that you did and yeah. That’s

EVA: (21:10)
It amazing. Thank you so much, Monica. And thank you so much for coming on my podcast today and sharing your story with everyone. Um, so for those of you who wanna learn more about the sleep Bible, um, you can check out my free master class, which is linked in the show notes, um, which will help you get started on teaching your little one, how to sleep through the night. And then there is information all about the sleep Bible at the very end. Um, you can also just head straight to the page, my sleeping baby.com/sleep-bible, and feel free to reach out if you have any other questions, Monica, thank you again for coming on and sharing your story. Thanks everyone for listening. I hope you

EVA: (21:48)
Thank you so much for listening. If you are looking for some help while sleep training your baby and finally getting a good night’s sleep, feel free to reach out! Please subscribe, leave a review and share this episode with a friend who can benefit from it. I also love hearing from my listeners. So feel free to DM me on Instagram @mysleepingbaby, or send me an email at eva@mysleepingbaby.com until next time have a wonderful restful nights.