Hey there, you’re listening to the My Sleeping Baby podcast, which is all about baby and child sleep. I’m so excited to teach you how you can get your little ones sleeping so that you can sleep too and enjoy parenthood to its fullest. I’m Eva Klein, your resident’s sleep expert, mom of three, founder of the Sleep Bible online coaching program, and lover of all things sleep and motherhood. If you’re looking for tangible solutions for your little one sleep woes or you simply want to learn more, this podcast is for you. For more information, check out mysleepingbaby.com and you can follow me on Instagram and Facebook @mysleepingbaby.

Alright, Anita, thank you so much for being on the My Sleeping Baby podcast. We’re so happy to have you here.

Thank you so much for having me on.

All right, so why don’t you tell everybody a little bit about yourself and what you do.

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I am a, uh, public health and orthopedic physio. Um, and my practice here, I’m in Peterborough, Ontario, um, just north of Toronto. And my practice is focused on preconception, pregnancy, birth prep, and any stage postpartum recovery. So I do see clients years after giving birth as well and really have a focus around getting them either in pregnancy, you know, allowing them to really do the activity they wanna do with less pelvic floor symptoms, less pain, and the same thing postpartum, getting back to activities that they love. And I’ve also done specific physio duly training. So that’s where a lot of my birth prep, I combine it with physio, um, for my pregnant clients. And then I also co-host the two Birth and Beyond podcast, which has been a lot of fun over the years. And you’ll find me on, uh, Instagram Holistic Health Physio. And I have an online program called Bump to Birth. So I can share those strategies I share with my prenatal clients in clinic, share them in more of an online program, uh, format so then anyone around the world can access it.

Amazing. And I’ll just say that your Instagram account is awesome. Like the content, the free content that you’ve had, that you have on your feed is really amazing. So everyone listening, oh, thank you. Who is either pregnant or you just had a baby or maybe you just had a baby a a few years ago, <laugh>, you should still go and check it out because, um, anything to do with pelvic floor health doesn’t just pertain to right after having a baby, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, this is, this is the sort of thing that can be a lingering issue for years after giving birth if you don’t tackle it head on, right? Mm-hmm.

<affirmative>. Exactly.

Exactly. So let’s, let’s take a step back here and first talk about what exactly is the pelvic floor and the core. I feel like these are terms that are often sort of like thrown around quite a bit and maybe with this underlying assumption that, that we all know <laugh> Yeah. What a pelvic floor is. And I think a lot of us might have a a, an idea, but um, chances are it’s probably not the most accurate definition of it. So yeah, why don’t you tell everybody, you know, what, what a pelvic floor is, what the core is. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, why do these terms get mixed up? Are, do they overlap in some way, shape or form? You know what, what’s the deal?

Totally and don’t even use it. I know we’re on a podcast, people can’t necessarily see, but I like to explain with the model as well. Um, but yeah, if you think of the, the pelvic floor is the muscles at the bottom of your pelvis. So you can even kind of feel on your own pelvis. They start from your pubic bone in the front, they go to your um, tailbone in the back and side to side sit bone to sit bone. So if you feel, if you’re sitting, you feel under each cheek, you’ll feel your sit bone. So your pelvic floor goes a lot wider and longer than a lot of us picture, right? A lot of us are told go home and do keels and everyone’s like, what does that even mean? So you just start trying to squeeze muscles, whatever you can find. So now you squeeze

The blueberry, that’s what you keep hearing, like squeeze, which

Is what blueberry, that’s one of the cues that I like to use cuz it is a good image for kind of connecting there. Yeah. So yeah, that’s kind of where the muscles are and there’s actually three layers. Um, so they go fairly deep and we want them really to be flexible. So I think what’s commonly thought again with a traditional Kegel is we wanna clench and just tighten these muscles all the time, but we actually need give, we need yes activation. So we need to be able to squeeze and lift but also relax these muscles mm-hmm. <affirmative> for a lot of the pelvic floor issues that we’ll talk about. So that’s really kind of what we want with them. So almost think of them like a trampoline, like we want strength and give, um, and they have a lot of really important jobs. So they stop us from leaking pee stool gas, they support our tailbone, our sacrum, our low back, our hips, um, the pelvis in general.

(04:46)
Um, they also support our pelvic organs, so our bladder, uterus and rectum. And if you’re pregnant also baby in there too. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, they also, uh, have a component in circulation within the pelvis and also have a sexual role. So sometimes people don’t realize too much tension in these muscles, which can happen for a lot of reasons, can contribute to internal pelvic pain. So pain with sex, pain with penetration, pain with pelvic exams that actually can be pelvic floor related. So a lot of really important jobs, um, of these muscles. But like you said, kind of core pelvic floor, what is the connection? What’s the difference? So I like to think about the core as like a canister. So if you picture kind of a canister in your ab between the pelvic floor is the bottom and then your diaphragm, your deep breathing muscle, which lives under the ribs is the top of the canister.

(05:37)
And then you’ve got your deep abdominal muscle that wraps around the center. So you’ve got your top, your bottom and your middle. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So how I talk about the pelvic floor is always part of a bigger system. It’s not, it doesn’t work in isolation. Yes, it has certain jobs, but it needs to work with that whole core canister. And then when you think about with pregnancy, that canister is having a lot more demand. So pelvic floor is having more pressure onto it, the abdomen around the center is having to stretch. And then for those who are pregnant, you’ll know what I’m talking about the diaphragm. Like you might be getting some, some limbs into your ribs or you might feel like it’s really hard to breathe mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And some of that is, is that your diaphragm doesn’t have as much space. It’s blood volume related too, but also lack of space for the diaphragm. So that’s why it’s like so helpful to learn about this in pregnancy, pre-pregnancy, but also postpartum. It’s never too late. And with a lot of pelvic floor symptoms, it’s, we wanna get that core canister working efficiently along with the rest of your body. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I’m not the type of physio where I’m just gonna give you, go do some keels and pelvic floor contractions and that’s it because I, that doesn’t really solve a lot of the pelvic floor issues. We need to look at the whole system and get the whole system working better.

Right, right, right, right. So the pelvic floor is inside the core?

Yeah, essentially it’s a part of it. It’s like the bottom of the core I would

Say. Okay. Yeah. The the what, literally the image that came to mind as you were describing it is like how my son’s lunchbox is its own entity, but it’s inside his nap sack <laugh>. Right. Is it Yes. That, that’s literally like the, the image, I guess that’s, it’s sort of like, tell me you’re a mom without telling me you’re a mom. Yeah. <laugh>. Yeah. That’s precisely the picture that came to mind. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, in that the lunchbox might serve its own, you know, unique mm-hmm <affirmative> you unique need, but he’s not gonna be able to like just carry the lunchbox by itself. He needs to put it in his backpack. Right. So Exactly. And then if the backpack there has a hole in it, then the lunchbox might start to fall out of it. Is that mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. Does that analogy actually work?

<laugh>? Yeah. I feel like it’s like it’s, it’s anything to think about the public floor is a part of that system. It is part of that internal component, um, that if other parts of the system, cuz sometimes with pelvic floor symptoms, again the pelvic floor gets blamed, it must be weak, something must be going on. But sometimes it’s the other parts of the system or other parts of the backpack. Mm-hmm <affirmative> that is actually the cause of the pelvic floor not being able to do its job cuz it’s being overwhelmed with too many things or too much pressure mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, that really it shouldn’t be dealing with. Okay. And then you’re getting those symptoms. Yeah.

So can you give us some examples of, you know, what some of those problems might be with the core per se, but that you’re saying mm-hmm <affirmative> then puts extra pressure on the pelvic floor then causing pelvic floor issues. Mm-hmm.

<affirmative>. Yeah. So for one example would be, uh, leaking pee with coughing and sneezing. So with that, again, we often think okay, a pelvic floor must be weak, but there’s actually a few components to it. So when we leak with coughing or sneezing, the pelvic floor needs to come on sooner, it needs to come on quick enough. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> that just before we cough or sneeze, it closes the urethra. So the hole where P comes out of. But the other component is when we cough or sneeze, pressure goes down onto the pelvic floor from the abdomen mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so if we can take pressure off the pelvic floor, so if we can change even our posture or position when we call for sneeze for less pressure, the pelvic floor has to do less work mm-hmm. <affirmative> and we get the pelvic floor to kick on a little bit faster.

(09:20)
And that in combination typically can solve that fairly quickly. Okay. So that’s more of a strategy that I’ll teach even on day one for those who see me for that reason or in bump to birth. I teach the same strategies. Um, because we also, we just need to look at these muscles as more than just weak muscles. Just like any other, if we have pain or um, uh, symptoms anywhere else in our body, it’s not just cuz those muscles in the area are weak mm-hmm. <affirmative>, there can be so many other factors involved in why you’re having those symptoms. So it’s the exact same thing for the pelvic floor.

Okay. Okay. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> Got it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I mean I know that when I had my third, I have this distinct memory, he must have been, I don’t know, six weeks old, so you know, or two months old. So how much did he weigh at that point? You know, 10 pounds, 12 pounds, 14 pounds, I can’t remember, but he was little. Yeah. You know, relatively speaking. And I remember holding him for, you know, maybe two minutes cuz I was standing by my door just talking to my neighbor and suddenly I started feeling my lower back hurting me. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, and knowing given that, you know, I had been working in the mom’s space for a little while and I guess I had heard enough of this message going around that, you know, back pain, pain can be a reflection of, you know, a pelvic floor or core issue.

(10:41)
That was when I was sort of like, oh, oh this is I guess what happens mm-hmm. <affirmative>, this is, this is it, this means I gotta go to a pelvic floor physio. And it turns out that yeah, I was told that my um, my pelvic floor was very tight and uh, and then as a result, you know, just wasn’t able to, you know, do its thing and then it starts impacting your, your back because I feel like some of these things you just, it’s so easy to tell yourself that, oh well you’re just getting old and oh, you’re a mom of three kids and you’re like busy holding your baby all day and you’re, you know, schlepping a heavy car seat. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and you know, plus big bags of heavy groceries. So like of course your, you know, back is gonna hurt or like of course you’re gonna pee your pants a little bit or a lot. Um, and so what you’re trying to say is like while it might be normal and common mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it doesn’t necessarily need to be your

Normal. Yeah. There’s stuff you can do. And I think that’s a great point to bring up because I also think we have that internal dialogue because that’s what society tells us. Like even other health professionals literally will say that like, you may go to your six week follow up and you might tell your care provider like, I’m leaking or I’m having going on and I’ve had clients who, you know, have been told like, but that’s just kind of how it is. Or do some keels and that’ll fix it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, or there’s nothing you can do when there’s surgery later. So I think we also get that because we’ve been told that narrative and it also gets passed down. Right. Like sometimes I know I have clients who like their mom, their grandma, like it’s like they all had that so they’re like that. Like you’re gonna have that too.

(12:18)
That’s just kind of part of the deal. Whereas I think our generation, what’s amazing is there’s so much more awareness around pelvic health, um, and so many more pelvic, uh, physios available that our generation is kind of being like, no, we actually don’t have to deal with this and we can take care of the kids and carry the car seat and all this and not have to deal with those symptoms. But it’s just sometimes we need to retrain certain muscles, we need to get better awareness of our own body. Yeah. And that’s why it’s great to work in pregnancy to learn this because I think of like, you know, we get told you’re you’re gonna give birth, we’ve done this forever, it’s just gonna happen. Um, and while to a degree that’s true, we don’t learn about our pelvic floor, we don’t learn anything about pelvic health typically before having a baby, unless you seek that out.

(13:06)
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we don’t learn about it in school even as a physio. It’s better now, but a lot of the training that I’ve done, a lot of public physio is post-grad After we graduate then we dive into this focus. So it’s something I really wish growing up that would be part of anatomy. Like even think about, think about to like high school anatomy. Like you learned about the muscles and your skeleton and stuff, but like the pelvis was kind of skipped over. Yeah. And then you went to the legs, you would do upper body, maybe the torso and then oh there’s your thigh and your knee, like this whole pelvic region no one wants to talk about. Right. And I feel that so impacts our birth experience if we’re very like basically disconnected from that area and we don’t learn about it. Um, I think the more you can learn about ahead of time that can actually help your birth experience and postpartum recovery too.

Yeah. It’s, it’s interesting because, you know, my, my mom’s family, you know, a lot of her like siblings and uh, parents, you know, there seems to be everybody in her family has been going to a physiotherapist for years. You know, dealing with like, you know, all sorts of like back issues and hip issues and whatnot. And so, you know, my mom, I would say is a very like the opposite of sheltered when it comes to, or ignorance when it comes to, you know, various forms of help of, of help and you know, and therapy to be able to, you know, help with your quality of life. Um, she’s been in herself going to a physiotherapist and she goes for Accu, she’s been going for acupuncture for years. She had never heard of a pelvic floor physiotherapist before mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And as I said, she really is the opposite of ignorance when it comes to this sort of thing. She’s been going to a naturopath for year. She took me into a naturopath when I was 12. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like that’s how open-minded she is to, you know, alternative healthcare providers. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And yet she’s going, what’s a pelvic floor physiotherapist. Oh yeah. I’ve never heard of one of these before. And I think that’s pretty telling. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> that. So when do you feel like they stopped skipping over the pelvic region? They stopped going from upper body

Straight to legs. I think it’s really been, I’d say the last 10 years, but definitely the last five years I would say there’s way more awareness around this. There’s still people who are like, I’ve never heard of this before. My, you know, my friend told me she had this, you know, she wanted to see someone in pregnancy or she learned about this and told me I should too. I don’t really know what this is, but I am supposed to do this <laugh>. Yeah. Um, and I don’t know anyone who regrets learning about their pelvic floor ahead of time. It just, it makes such a difference in her whole life. Um, and also even just activities that you’re doing and comfort levels around it. Like, I know there’s some people, like again for example, leaking, if you have a lot of leaking, like some people are like, I feel like I can’t go to the gym now.

(16:04)
I can’t exercise. So I feel like other parts of my health are changing because I don’t feel like I can be active. Um, and so it just really impacts so many, so many parts of our life that I think it’s, it’s great to see that it’s moving in a better direction. And there are so many care providers now who are talking to their clients about it, who are sharing that there are resources, but we just still have a ways to go in general. Yeah. Of like, we need to keep talking about it. Um, I know sometimes we’ll be like, oh it’s public visit, you guys need to talk to like the doctors, all this stuff. And I was like, we do, we do all this. But the fact of it’s still to get out there, like it still takes people sharing it with family and friends. Yeah. So that people know like for example, for your mom to know that it’s an option. Right.

Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. I mean I remember when, when I was pregnant with my first, so this is, you know, 12 years ago now cuz she’s, she’s 11 and a half and I remember asking my midwife about exercise during pregnancy and she said, you know, oh yeah, anything that you were doing, you know, before you were pregnant you can continue to do, just don’t bother doing any of the AB stuff, you know, cuz there’s not really any, you know, there’s not really any point just skip over, you know, that region but you know, you can do everything else. And I was like, oh, okay. And, and that’s exactly what I did. Um, so tell me, I’m, I’m, I’m assuming, I mean this was, as I said, 12 years, uh, whopping 12 years ago, um, where things have thankfully evolved since then. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So what would you say are, you know, the best things that someone can do in their pregnancy for, you know, strengthening their core and and pelvic floor, you know, preparing for birth and you know, just keeping everything as strong and healthy as possible.

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. And I think that’s great to bring up cuz there’s two aspects to it. So I always talk to uh, clients like pelvic floor, but general body we do want to strengthen for sure. That’s great. It’s gonna help in pregnancy. It also prepares you ahead for postpartum. But then there’s also the release and relaxation component. So for the pelvic floor, um, specifically in pregnancy, how you said about strengthening, I teach about, uh, like basically connecting your breath with the pelvic floor as you inhale it relaxes as you exhale and engages. So that’s what we call like the core breath or core canister breath and then literally bring that into squats and lunges and upper body movements. Um, I would say as you get further and like crunches in that just get super awkward anyways mm-hmm. <affirmative> and the pressure system, it’s just not, doesn’t feel great and is it’s not gonna do a whole lot, but you’re gonna bring that core aspect into other components of strength training.

(18:44)
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So you technically are engaging and strengthening and supporting that area through so many types of exercise. Whether you love strength training, yoga, Pilates, um, so that’s how you would like bring it in. Um, certain things will modify. So for example, if you were used to doing planks pre-pregnancy, as you get into that second, especially third trimester to continue doing planks on the floor to actually engage that center I was talking about with the canister. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> really hard to do because how things have stretched and the pressure. So for example, we’ll elevate your plank. So either um, bench height or table height. So you’re still getting that plank, um, activation with your core canister but at a higher height so that you can actually do it effectively. Right. Um, but yeah, bringing it into so many different types of whole body exercises. And then the other side is, uh, mobility work.

(19:35)
So I always say for birth it’s more about how much can we release and relax into it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it’s great to strength train, but you can’t muscle your way through labor. I’m sure you father that too, right? It’s like, yeah, yeah. You can’t like, like just muscle your way through. So it’s like how much can you relax into every contraction? So with that is mobility stuff. And if, if you’re not fam familiar with mobility, it’s more like prenatal yoga type. So it’s like moving stretches like cat cow thread, the needle windmill, different movements that actually help you lengthen muscles and you breathe into them. So balancing those two are key. And when it comes to the pelvic floor for birth, instead of how I talked about is you inhale, relax and exhale, engage the pelvic floor for birth, you wanna learn how to inhale to relax the pelvic floor and exhale it stays relaxed.

(20:28)
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I use an image of a flower bloom for that. Yeah. Because you almost wanna think of like opening the door for baby to exit. Yeah. So that inhale to open, exhale, it stays open. Think of that flower bloom out of the vaginal opening. That imagery can work really well. Connecting your brain to those muscles to relax them. Right. Versus clenching. Because also during labor, you know, contraction surges, you’re getting new sensations to your body and that’s where preparation is key education, but also physical and mental prep. So that even though this is a new sensation coming at you, you have strategies of how you can let go and release into it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> versus fight it. So the more we tense our body, our pelvic floor is tensing too, which is like the exit point for baby. Got it. So yeah, so you kind of, I would say you really wanna balance both in pregnancy. I find that prepares you the most for birth and then ahead also for your postpartum recovery.

Okay. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I’ll tell you what 24 year old me, what would be thinking, you know, pregnant with my first kid, you know, hearing this I’d be, I’d be saying, well I’m not having a natural birth, I’m having an epidural. So I, my birth plan is I am going to go into labor, I’m gonna go to the hospital, I’m gonna get an epidural. I’m gonna go and take a nap. I’m gonna wake up, I’m gonna eat some jello, I’m gonna cough out a baby and I’m gonna be done. So what do I need to do any of this for? So what would you, uh, in, in case you guys didn’t catch the sarcasm in my voice, not exactly how it played out, but that was what, 24 year old me for, you know, pregnant, first time, soon to be, first time mom would be thinking, hearing this, so what mm-hmm. <affirmative> how would you respond to that

<laugh>? Yeah. So really great example too cause I know that’s totally come to kind of think that. Um, and I always say, I’m like, you want epidural? No epidural. You wanna prepare for both support all the ways. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the thing I find with an epidural people are sometimes surprised at is like, you won’t get it right away. Yeah. So you need to have those strategies of how to move through labor until you get that epidural. Right. Um, and sometimes if you don’t have that, you feel kind of stuck and then it’s just like, but you’re not at the point to that. They’ll say, okay, now you can stay in the hospital and now you can have the epidural. So learning those strategies are key. And then also, like I said, the strength and the mobility. You’re gonna wanna learn breathing strategies, how to relax the pelvic floor to that component until the epidural.

(23:00)
But even with the epidural, when it comes to pushing, depending how much feeling you have, it’s really hard to know ahead of time. You can’t necessarily be like, I would like to feel this amount. Yeah. Cause they can’t always control it. Yeah. Um, so again, learning how to connect the brain to relax the pelvic floor when it comes to pushing is actually helpful. Because there is this myth that your ba your pelvic floor pushes your baby out. It does not mm-hmm. <affirmative> your uterus pushes the baby out. The pelvic floor needs to get out of the way. Um, and within,

But your uterus is in your core is your, your uterus is within your core. Right?

Yeah. It’s in your center. Uhhuh.

<affirmative>. Yeah. So it’s your core muscles that are pushing your uterus to push the baby out

In a way. So it’s very interesting cuz the uterus, when baby gets low enough, something called a fetal ejection reflex can happen, which basically signals the uterus to start pushing the baby out. And when that happens, you may feel again, the abdominals respond to that mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, I don’t like to liken birth to throwing up, but it will make sense when I explain this <laugh>. So, you know, when you, when you do throw up, like you can’t stop it. Yeah. Like you can’t suppress that. It’s literally you’re, you’re involuntarily Yeah. It’s involuntarily happening. Right. You’re not being like, okay, core you turn on and then you digestive track and then you like that doesn’t happen. So it’s the same with the other way is that your uterus is creating, there’s a reflex that happens, um, and then your abs are kind of going along for the ride essentially. Right. In terms of with bringing that and then the pelvic floor, we want to kind of get out of the way mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, so definitely even if you’re thinking, I for sure sign me up for that epidural, you still wanna learn these strategies because it’ll actually help you until you get it. But then also when it comes to pushing, when you may not have any sensation of the pelvic floor or, um, the pressure, then you’ll still be able to use that connection which can actually help with pushing.

Right. Right. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. I mean I, I I think it’s important to remember that when you get an epidural and the epidural works, it might not work in the way that you think it’s going to work in that mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it takes away 100% of the pain and discomfort and sensation mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, and you literally just cough a baby out. Um, I mean, at least I’ll speak for myself, my, when I was able to, to successfully get an epidural, which was technically one for three, um, one for three of my births, it, it worked let’s say 80% of the way mm-hmm. <affirmative>, whereas, you know, where, in other words, at the very, very end, like when I was pushing, I could feel everything. I was deep breathing and closing my eyes, you know, through the contractions. It just wasn’t nearly as painful as it would have been.

(25:53)
I would’ve been screaming through my contractions like I did with my natural births, my unplanned natural births mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, um, it, it is important to recognize that it, even when things go completely too planned, you’re absolutely right. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you can’t control exactly how your body is going to respond to an epidural because mm-hmm. <affirmative>, there’s, it’s not like there is a regular strength versus extra strength option. Yeah. Like there is with Tylenol, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it’s sort of like a one sized fits all. I mean, at least that’s where we’re at right now. I don’t know if the powers at the ER working on <laugh>, you know, more advanced types of epi epidurals mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But right now it really is a one size fits all for, for everyone. Yeah. And you sort of just have to, uh, hope for the best and while it, it might work for you, it might not work a hundred percent mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So being able to manage, you know, that pain and you, and being, being able to know how to access those core muscles of yours mm-hmm. <affirmative> and be able to get the most bang for your buck when you’re pushing mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So you can push for let’s say 20 minutes versus three hours, I would say. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> is incredibly worthwhile and, um mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I, I I wish I would have known that <laugh> Yeah. The first time around cuz I pushed for three hours.

Yeah. And that’s the thing, I think it’s great to bring up like your experience, right? Because it’s true the epidurals also work with gravity too. So like, so you may like, some people are like, I felt nothing in one leg and the other leg I felt everything mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, or sometimes they just don’t work. Like it’s, so it’s really, and then vice versa is how people, you know, if you’re preferring an unmedicated birth still prepare, become knowledgeable of epidurals, pained options because in labor you may choose to have that. And so I usually just say regardless of your preference of one versus the other, learn about all the options because then it’s a much more empowering and, um, you’re making active informed decisions around things to know your options versus just feeling like I don’t have any options. Like what can I do next? And then not really knowing what that’ll look like. So I think that’s a great point of your experience of being like, it was different than what you were expecting Yeah. When it came to the epidural.

Yeah. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, Anita, this has been amazing and so unbelievably helpful. Um, where can people find you if they want more of you in their life?

Yeah, yeah. So definitely I’d say the main place social media would be Instagram, so Holistic health physio. Um, and in my link in bio has all the other options of working with me. But definitely send me a dm, um, and also the two Birth and Beyond podcast, you can find me at weekly as well.

Amazing. All right. Thanks so much again, Anita. Thank you everyone for listening in. Hope you all have a wonderful day.

Thank you everyone for listening, and I hope you all have a wonderful day. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a review and share this episode with a friend who can benefit from it. I also love hearing from my listener, so feel free to DM me on Instagram at my sleeping baby or send me an email at eva@mysleepingbaby.com. Until next time, have a wonderful restful nights.